EP.04 - Celebrating Multi-Passionate Creative Entrepreneurs
D’ana Joi is a Multi-Passionate Creative educator and entrepreneur and who carved her own path to her intentional career through blogging and building communities for multi-passionates. We discuss how discovering her Human Design was instrumental in her career, and how multi-passionates can learn to fall in love with focus. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on my website.
Transcription
Transcription created with DeScript.
(Transcription has been edited for clarity.)
Karen: I'm Karen Styles and this is the Intentional Career Podcast. I talk to all kinds of people who take all kinds of paths to work they love. I'm a career and life coach and owner of Flow and Fire coaching. If you're ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me.
There's a link in the show notes, or you can go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue "Schedule a Call” button.
Karen: Today on the show, my guest is D’Ana Joi. She goes by her middle name, Joi, and is a multi-passionate educator, community builder and content creator. She believes having many passions is a gift, not a burden. And she's on a mission to rewrite the narrative around choosing one thing, being the only path to success through her content, live workshops and online community, Joi teaches creatives, how to make friends with focus, overcome overwhelm and step into their multi-passionate mastery.
A quick heads up that in this episode is our very first pet appearance. You can listen for that little Easter egg when Joi's dog, Chai, comes in with a growl in support of a very important statement that Joi makes. It happens after the 20-minute mark. And now. On with the show.
Karen:[1:24]Welcome, Joi. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Joi: Thank you so much, Karen, I'm very excited to be here.
Karen: [00:54] All right. I'm excited to talk to you about multi-passionates and career paths, and, well, your career path obviously. And I know for myself as a multi-passionate, a lot of us tend to have a lot of different jobs, so, I'm curious, what that was like for you?
D’Ana Joi: [01:17] Yes. As a multi-passionate, what I realized pretty early on was that there probably was not going to be a career that I could just fall into that felt super aligned and that I would need to carve out my own path and create my own way of doing things and allow that to be correct for me.
So, I started figuring myself out [01:48] in the form of a blog. I started writing blog posts and I started my blog and I named it, Joi Knows How because I wanted to keep it very [02:00] open-ended. Joi Knows How actually came out of my desire to say, I know how to do plant care, I know how to do recipes, I know how to do home decor. And so, the name Joi Knows How was this open-ended sentence that then I could complete in any way that I wanted through any content that I wanted to create and put on my blog.
Where most people say, you know, choose one thing and choose one niche [02:22], I chose to choose one platform to focus on. And then, I allowed myself a lot of creative freedom on that platform. Then, naturally, what happened was I talked about a lot of different subjects and as I started to write about more kinds of self-development, I noticed that those blog posts were getting the most traction.
And then when I specifically wrote a blog post called, "It's Time to Start Celebrating Multi-Passionate Creatives," that is when I realized this is what people want to hear from me. [03:00] This is what people are resonating with. I still get emails about that blog posts. People find it and feel for the first time that someone is actually acknowledging their experience.
[03:10] And so, that was kind of my green light to say, hmm, okay, how deep can I go into this subject? Because it's something that is so near and close to me because it's my life experience that I had so much to say. So from there, it's just kind of been a snowball of organic figuring things out. I went into coaching after I started my blog.
[03:37] After I wrote that blog post, I started going into coaching simply because I wanted to help people. And I wanted to, I like to say that, you know, writing that blog post and really creating a space for myself to show up in my fullness and in my, what I would now say my multi-passionate mastery. It was like a light bulb moment for me when I made that choice.
And there came a point [04:00] where that was no longer satisfying, and I wanted to help create someone else's light bulb moment. And that became my new mission. So, then I went into coaching because I just kind of thought, okay, well, I'm going to help people. I'll just do coaching that's the next logical step.
[04:16] I found it to be really challenging because I'm still, and I still feel this way, I'm working on myself so much and I'm just in such a deep state of getting to know myself and learning to experience and them teaching what I know, that for me to hold space for these long, you know, three-month one-on-one containers, it really doesn't suit my energetic output. I just find it really, really draining. So, I had to put coaching down because it didn't feel aligned for me.
Karen: [04:52] Interesting. I'm so curious about this because it makes sense, right? Like you have this lightbulb, like, oh, being multi-passionate is something I can accept about myself. And then other people hear that, and are like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm learning this from you. So, do you think it was, was it coaching itself? It sounded like the time, you didn't like the time commitment or it felt restrictive. What was it about the coaching?
Joi: [05:17] It's truly an energetic output conversation. I enjoy teaching to groups. I enjoy teaching classes. I enjoy knowing that something that I create once can then go and outlive that one moment and it can continue to serve people over and over and over and reach more and more and more people. [05:42] That for me, feels like a more aligned way to use my energy than giving someone all my attention in a one-hour conversation that no one else ever gets to see or hear.
I think that there's absolutely a time and a space and there may be a time in my life where one-on-one containers feel more aligned, but for where I am now, and just kind of what I'm moving through on a personal note, it just feels like it's not a way for me to use my energy.
[06:20] I do really, really well with educating in a group setting. And I do really well with holding space for community containers. And that's where I feel the most empowered and where I feel the most aligned. So, I’m definitely not scared, of actually wanting to do high-touch, ongoing one-on-one containers as their high-ticket offer, but I'm just not here to do business the way that everyone says that I should.
[00:06:50] I'm here to do business in a way where I feel really good about how I'm showing up and I'm able to serve and create from that really aligned energetic space. And so for me, teaching in groups, teaching masterclasses, having digital products, all of that is just a better use of my, my energetic output than being in a one-on-one container. It doesn't mean I'll never do it. It's just where I am now.
Joi: [00:07:15] What I learned about coaching one-on-one, is that really powerful coaches who are coaching one-on-one, they have the ability to hold space for that person who's in that, inside of that container with them. And I find that I don't have the bandwidth to hold space for people on a one-on-one sort of basis.
[00:07:44] What I enjoy more and what lights me up and what feels more energetically aligned for me is holding spaces for communities. That's why I call myself a community builder. I like to teach classes to groups. I like to create recorded content that I know can be looked at over and over and over by more than one person.
[00:08:05] If someone reaches out to me to work with me, one-on-one these days, I do offer à la carte one-on-one strategy sessions, where I will drop in and I'll connect with you, uninterrupted, for 90 minutes and give you everything I have. But what I'm not promising is that I'm going to offer a one-on-one three-month container. [00:08:28] Because for me, it's extremely energetically draining for me to be giving one person all of that attention for that long. I can do it on a session-by-session basis. But after that, it just becomes an energy drink for me, has a lot to do with my Human Design type and just how I show up in that and how I'm committed to living by my design.
[00:08:50] And I'm a Human Design Manifestor. So, and I'm an Emotional Authority Manifestor so my emotions fluctuate. There are days where I can barely show up for myself, let alone show up for someone else. And so, I'm just okay with that. And I've accepted that. There's more than one way to do business and that I don't have to have a high-touch ongoing one-on-one container.
[00:09:17] In order to have a successful business model, I spend my energy thinking about resources that I can create for the collective. I spend my energy thinking about a masterclass that I can host a digital product that I can create that can then go on to create passive revenue. Because my value in life is to have space in my life for rest and creativity.
[00:09:43] And if I'm showing up over and over again, the worst weeks for me are weeks where I have a ton of calls because I just I'm like, I cannot function like this. I need white space. I need quiet. I need time to create because I'm actually creating content that's going to help [00:10:00] shift part of the collective awareness around what it means to be multi-passionate. And that takes a lot of energy to pioneer an entirely new framework and help shift the way that people are thinking about multi-passionates, that takes a lot of energy to create. And so, the last thing I would want to do is show up on a call with someone who's paid to be in a one-on-one container and be exhausted and show up and give them a depleted version of myself.
Karen: Yeah.
Joi: [00:10:34] I want to make sure what I'm always doing is creating time to rest so that then I can show up and powerfully serve my entire community. And that's the path I've chosen.
Karen: [00:10:48] How much of it is about like, and I'm taking this and drastically simplifying it down, but I've had this inkling, sometimes, where like, I get a feeling of, I just don't want to do this. Or I do want to do this, you know? And like, how important is that feeling of, of just wanting or not wanting and, you know, is that, is that like the voice that, that you're following? Or would you call it something else?
Joi: [00:11:17] I would call it, I'm not available for that. You know? So, someone says, hey, I'm really looking for an ongoing one-on-one coaching container. There are people I can refer you to. I'm not available for that. I do à la carte, 90-minute sessions. If you want to drop in, I'll give you my undivided attention, but I do not do ongoing one-on-one containers.
[00:11:44] So, and it is very much like I don't want to do it. And you know what? Here's how, you know. You do it and you feel resentful after. Or you book that client and then you're angry. So, you have to show up for the call, right? Instead of like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
When I host a workshop for, for my community, [00:12:05] for the collective, I cannot wait. I am excited. I'm like, let's go at workshop day is a big deal for me. Like it's an event. I'm excited. I can't wait to be there. And even if I show up to host a workshop and only one person is there live, I know I have plans for the replay. So I'm still excited if I have, you know, a one-on-one 90-minute session.
[00:12:30] I also get excited for that because I know I'm going to drop in, give that client what they need and then I'm going to, you know, exit. But when I used to have ongoing weekly calls with someone week after week, I would be like, oh my gosh, I do not want to show up for this call. I don't want to do this.
So yeah, it is that feeling and it's being okay with that. And especially when it's a feeling that goes against the grain, then we make ourselves wrong for not wanting it, [00:13:00] but our desires are so intelligent. And if we can make space to listen to them and be more unapologetic about that, then we start to create business models that are authentic and genuine instead of everyone just, you know, being on a hamster wheel and doing things the way that they feel that they need to.
[00:13:19] And to be totally honest, there are so many people who are the polar opposite, who are like, I love work. I have 12 one-on-one clients that brings me so much happiness. And I honor that, and I respect that, and that's just simply not my path. I'm here to build community. I'm here to create digital products. [00:13:40] I'm here to use my voice to really create a paradigm shift in the multi-passionate experience. And that's where I am.
Later in life, you never know. So, I like to say I changed my mind a lot. This is another thing I would love to talk about because this is becoming a part of my business model. It's just getting everyone on board that this [00:14:00] might change and I cannot commit to this long term.
[00:14:02] But you know, I changed my mind a lot. So, there could be a point in the future where I say, wow, I have really reached a new threshold where maybe I have the digital product funnel and it's working really well. Right? Maybe my community is sort of sustaining itself and I have other educators who are coming in and teaching. And then maybe I have more bandwidth, more space in my life to drop in and be with someone in a one-on-one intimate container for a longer period of time.
Karen: [00:14:30] With the desire to do so, right?
Joi: [00:14:33] Right. From a desire-driven place. Exactly, exactly. And if that happens, that's great. And if it doesn't, that's also perfect.
Karen: [00:14:42] Did you have a point where, I'd like to ask this question to people because it happened to me and it happens to a lot of people where you kind of look around at your work or your life and all of it, cause it goes together and kind of go, okay, this [00:15:00] has got to change. I can't do this like this anymore. [00:15:03] Did you have a moment or an experience like that? And if so, what was going on?
Joi: [00:15:14] I have this experience often. [laughs]
Karen: [00:15:20] [laughs] Actually, that's kind of a relief to hear.
Joi: [00:15:24] Like, yeah, so I've had this experience many times in many ways and big ways. That means, okay, time to totally pivot my entire business model, and in smaller ways, meaning actually I'm not going to launch this this month any more time, you know? Right? So, there's, like, so many layers to that.
I will say though, for the most pivotal version of looking around and realizing, oh no, no, this isn't going to work, was me learning my human [00:16:00] learning that I'm a Human Design Manifestor, and I do not have any activations in my Sacred Role. So that means that the part of my body graph, you know, for anyone listening, who's just like, I don't know Human Design.
Karen: [00:16:15] Yeah. Can you give us, can you define, I think I'm just barely tipping my toes into it, so I don't think you, can super sum it up? But can you kind of explain what Human Design is for people who don't know and then yeah, go into what that means for you?
Joi: [00:16:30] Yes. And I'm so excited that you're in my community because we're going to get to learn so much about this and it's going to be amazing. Oh, it's so cute. Design in my personal definition is the blueprint with which you come into the world that helps you navigate what your energetic exchange with the work you put out in the world and how you interact with other people, [00:16:57] What that's going to look like.
[00:17:00] And it's information about yourself. It's information about things like staying consistent, like, you know, what your energy cycles are around work. What's your energetic output? How much rest do you require? How much quiet time? Should you be going out and networking? Or are you, you know, are you here to more so just respond to people's needs?
[00:17:24] Or are you here to initiate? There is a lot of different layers to it, but Human Design basically is not a personality test because it's not based on quiz answers. So, this isn't the Enneagram and it isn't, you know, these different personality tests, because those can change depending on your state of mind, when you're answering the questions.
Human Design comes from ancient wisdom. [00:17:49] It comes from Chinese medicine and also comes from some of the Tree of Life. So, it comes from these ancient methodologies. And [00:18:00] uses your birth time, date and location to then pull up information about your body graph, that energy, your energetic body. I hope I'm not butchering this. I'm not a Human Design practitioner, but I am a Human Design enthusiast.
[00:18:16] So hopefully I'm not butchering this, but that's basically the gist of it. It's sort of like a way to get to know yourself and it's sort of like, you know, if you're into, oh, I'm a Sagittarius, so I'm a Pisces and that kind of thing. It's like that, but on steroids a little bit. So, you're just getting a ton of information about yourself.
[00:18:36] What tends to happen with Human Design is it's going to confirm a lot of things that you already knew, but maybe you felt confused or ashamed about because it's maybe not just like the status quo or things like that.
So, in my experience, learning my Human Design was like, oh, okay, so this is why I am this way. And I no longer need to apologize for that because I [00:19:00] actually came into this body to live my life with this set of not rules, but like I have this roadmap for how I intended to live my life, which is like for the Manifestor I'm here to initiate powerful movements. And after I initiate something, I need long, deep periods of rest to then gather up energy so that I can receive my next urge and initiate the next thing.
Someone who is a Generator or a Manifesting Generator, they're here to respond to initiations and needs. So, they're here to say, hey, you know, hey, I have these ideas. [00:19:49] What do you guys think is best? And then their audience responds and then they go and they respond. And then it's like this back and forth and Generator and Manifesting Generator [00:20:00] on periods of rest in between. They can keep going and keep going and creating and building and working and then when they feel tired, they can rest.
[00:20:09] But as long as they're doing things that light them up, they have a lot of energy to work and create. So that's why for me, I hired a Generator as my Virtual Assistant because she will be able to respond to my initiations and she has the energy to go and work and complete that for me. And it's perfect for her. It's aligned for her. It's her design.
So it's a rabbit hole, but learning that I'm really here to initiate and that I need periods of rest, that specific element really brought me out of feeling like I'm lazy and I have no work ethic because that's what I was believing before. How come I build this thing [00:20:56] and then I don't have any interests [00:21:00] next week? What's wrong with me? I'm lazy. I don't have any work ethic. I don't know how to work hard, but I'm actually not here to work hard. I'm here to create and initiate, pull movements and gather around me people who are responsive. Carry that mission out.
Joi: [00:21:23] So in learning all of this, about my Human Design, the biggest shift that it brought into my world was realizing that I'm not lazy and I don't have a shitty work ethic, which is what I was carrying with me before. It was this feeling of what is wrong with me?
[00:21:44] I get an idea. I'm so excited in the beginning. And then I launch it and I put it out into the world and I put all this energy into build building it, and then it's done, or it's almost done, and now I have zero interest and I'm exhausted. What's wrong? Me? I thought, oh, this is self-sabotage, I'm lazy. I have a poor work ethic, but after learning why Human Design, that as a Manifestor, I'm not actually here to work hard.
Karen: [00:22:13] Hmm.
Joi: [00:22:14] I'm here to initiate. I'm here to create impactful movements. And I'm here to inform about what I am creating so that the other Human Design types, especially Generators and Manifesting Generators can respond and say, oh my goodness, I love that idea. What do you think about this? Or I know someone who would love that, let me reach out to them.
[00:22:39] And we're here to work in this beautiful co-creative ecosystem of different Human Design types. I have a really good friend who's a Generator and we have conversations all the time and she was like, oh my gosh, I love talking to you because you really helped me get started. You give me so many ideas you initiate for me, and then [00:23:00] I can just go and respond.
[00:23:01] And now I know what to do. This is why when I do lead a 90-minute one-on-one à la carte session, that's really all you need from me. I'm here to help initiate. I'm here to get you started. I'm here to help people get started. I'm here to initiate. What I'm not here to do is then be an ongoing source of support because I eventually am going to run out of energy and I needed time in my calendar and white space to relax, to recuperate, to rejuvenate so that then I can come back and make that next initiation and that next impactful movement.
[00:23:50] So a 90-minute one-on-one session with me could potentially be the equivalent of someone else's three-month program because my energy, my initiation energy is really powerful.
But if I was trying to take that energy and turn it into, okay, we're going to meet once a week, it's going to be this consistent thing. [00:24:10] That's actually not how my energy is the most powerful. So, there's a lot of beauty and learning in our Human Design. And this is why I have begun to weave this into my work with multi-passionates because it really helps us too. I have this deep self-acceptance, but I can also teach us how to work with other people.
[00:24:31] So for example, my Virtual Assistant, that I've hired, she's a Generator. And so she'll be able to respond to what I want to create, and she'll be able to help me be consistent. Like she's going to plan all my social media content for me. Right? And she's going to schedule it out and post it. I will be able to say, here are the themes I want to post about. [00:24:51] Here are the offerings I have here at my initiations. And here's the content I created because I love creating content but scheduling it and posting it [00:25:00] consistently, not so much. So just really like, I mean, we can go on forever about Human Design, but it is a way to know more about yourself.
[00:25:12] So when you asked, you know, was there a time that I looked around and said, oh, none of this is going to work, like I just gotta pivot, learning my Human Design was the number one thing. And I'm going to be honest with you, Karen, I'm still in this because there is so much pressure to have a high ticket offer that requires you to show up.
Karen: [00:25:35] Yeah.
Joi: [00:25:35] So every day in my intensive focus sessions, which we can talk about perhaps later, but Intensive Focus is part of the three-part focus framework that I've developed and, and sense of focus allows you time to look at a high level at your commitments, your vision for your life at your desired outcomes.
[00:25:59] And then ask [00:26:00] yourself if your current commitments and, you know, the things you put in time and energy to, do they align? Is there anything that needs to shift? Right? Every time I come out of an insensitive focus session, I'm like, I need to focus on digital products. I need to create passive revenue. I need to be okay with that. I do not have to create a one-on-one long-term offer in order to be a successful entrepreneur. And I need to accept that. That's okay. Okay. So, it's like an ongoing acceptance in an ongoing remembering that it's okay to do things in a way that's going to honor my energetic output.
Karen: [00:26:44] Right. And like the right path for you? Not, I don't know, a system that a business coach created and said, here's the path to seven figures or whatever.
Joi: [00:26:57] Right.
Karen: [00:27:00] Yeah. So, it sounds like Human Design was huge in helping you kind of intentionally go where you need to go in, in the way that's right for you. I'm curious if you had any advice out there that you like ignored to your benefit.
Joi: [00:27:17] Yeah. I mean, everyone's like, well, you're sitting on so much money. You should just be a one that you should just do coaching, should do one-on-one coaching. Like it just makes so much sense. You're multi-passionate and they'll come to you and they want coaching. And people ask me all the time if I do one-on-one coaching and I literally have to turn people away because I don't,
Karen: [00:27:36] Interesting.
Joi: [00:27:39] I don't. And so what I ended up saying, in the way, I have ignored that advice. I'll say to someone I don't do long-term one-on-one coaching, but whoever you work with, you know, as a coach, if they are not familiar with the multi-passionate experience, and I encourage you to book a session with me [00:28:00] once a quarter, so that I can provide that contrast and I can provide that context and we can go deep into that part of it.
[00:28:07] So, you know, it's just kind of an unconventional thing to say. Most people would say, well, people are asking you for one-on-one coaching, you should just do that. But I'm not here to respond, I'm here to initiate and do what I know is right for me to do. So that's been advice that I've definitely had to ignore and not to like, you know, continue with the same topic if you were hoping for a different answer, but that's definitely, then some advice that I had to ignore.
[00:28:34] Also, some advice that I ignored earlier on is, you know, you got to just quit your job and go all in. I think I didn't quit my job till I was good and ready to quit my job. And the reason being was I wanted to enter into a state of appreciation for my job before I left. I [00:29:00] wanted to transition out of that experience, feeling empowered and like, you know, there was a world of possibility, not I'm just going to quit because I just have to, you know. I got to go cold Turkey and I just got to do this, isn't the experience my nervous system wanted. And it wasn't the experience that I wanted. So, I chose to start to focus on all the skills I was gaining from my nine to five. I stopped calling it my full-time job and I started calling it my support job.
[00:29:32] I created a workday manifesto that I hung up next to my desk and read every morning. I took real deep responsibility over my ownership of that situation. And I alchemized it into something so beautiful and so powerful that by the time I left, they threw a party for me. Everyone wanted to know more about my business. Everyone was excited for me and it was this beautiful transition.
Karen: Amazing. [00:30:00] I'm so with you on that. And I feel like it's a big, it's a mythology around like, you know, be brave, be bold, take the leap. Right? And to say that like, that's the way to be successful is to take the leap. And I think maybe some people can do this, but not, not all of us can. Or it's not right for all of us to, you know, and I had a similar experience where, you know, I knew that the job I was in was something I was not going to be in long-term and I wasn't quite ready to leave it either.
[00:30:34] And, I think also for me, it was about making little changes and little shifts and knowing that those actually add up to a lot in the end, and it doesn't have to be a giant leap off the cliff. So, I want to spread that message too, that it is not the only way to do it.
Joi: [00:30:54] Absolutely. It's not the only way. And I mean, I did quit [00:31:00] before I felt completely ready because being ready is another myth.
Karen: [00:31:04] oh, for sure. A hundred percent. Yep.
Joi: [00:31:06] But you know, I just, I considered all the options, right? Like, okay, what's, you know, how much am I going to need each month to bring in? Do I have a solid business model that I can really get behind?
[00:31:21] And those are questions that were more important to me than, like, I knew. And I think another thing too, is people confuse like your level of dedication for like, oh, do you have a nine to five? I've been completely dedicated to my business energetically for a very long time, but I hadn't quite settled on a business model.
[00:31:41] And I just wasn't sure about a lot of the things and I wanted to have support financially while I figured all that out. And so, me keeping my support job was my way of being dedicated to my business. It was my way of making sure that I gave myself time and space to figure out exactly who I am as a business owner, without financial stress.
[00:32:07] I didn't have to think about, well, I got to bring money. So, I just, okay, screw it. I'm going to go do one-on-one for example. Right? I never had to make that sacrifice. And so, it's actually one of the most powerful choices I've made as a business owner was to support myself through a different channel.
Karen: [00:32:23] Yeah. I had a friend who, when I was going through the angst of, like, knowing my job was coming to an end, but feeling like I still had to stay a little bit longer. She was like, some people call it an investor. This is my investor, you know, and it's a nice way to look at it. And I agree. I think sometimes it's nice to not have to put pressure on your business too much, too early. [00:32:43] And then you can nourish it or let it grow and become what it wants to be without, you know, forcing this thing to have to make you a full salary yet.
[00:32:53] So you were talking about focus and, and I want to hear a little bit more about that because sometimes something that goes along with being multi-passionate and being interested in a lot of things, it can feel like it's hard to focus. And now you're educating about focus. So tell us more about what that means, for multi-passionates and, and you know, how we can make that work for us?
Joi: [00:33:23] So this is one of my favorite topics. This is something that I truly feel I was put on this planet to teach and to develop. And basically, what it is, is beginning to realize that focus is not this binary, very big, vague concept that we have kind of been conditioned to believe that it is.
So when you're in school, sit down and focus, [00:33:55] I mean, something very specific. It's like either you are quiet and you're [00:34:00] watching the teacher and you're taking your notes, or your head is down and you're doing your work or you're taking a test. Focus. Right? We've heard it so much in the education space. Okay. Everybody focus. Here's what we're doing.
[00:34:11] Right? It's like, okay, all hands on deck, eliminate all distractions and just think about whatever's right in front of you. And so for someone who struggles with just that version of focus, all of a sudden, now they're a person who doesn't know how to focus and they've gone all the way to that extreme. Multi-passionates because we by nature are inclusive thinkers, we would love to listen to the teacher, but we're also going to doodle. And we're also going to be thinking about a few other things and we're going to be making connections and we're going to be taking notes. And we're going to be remembering this idea that we have here and over there. [00:34:47] And for some people that is the most natural way to focus.
And so, what I have developed is what I call my three-part focus framework. And what that [00:35:00] does is it takes focus out of the abstract and it breaks it down into a more nuanced holistic framework where focus then becomes an energy that you can actually work with.
[00:35:14] So for example, Intensive Focus, which can also be called things like Intuitive Focus or Big Picture Focus, right? As we've explored together in other containers. So we can use whatever name we want, but the idea for that type of focus is you're zooming out. And you're thinking about your values. You're thinking about your ideal life. [00:35:42] You're thinking about what really lights you up. You're thinking about what your vision is. Maybe it's just for your vision for the next month or the next three months, or it could be the next year. It just depends on how far you want to zoom out, but you're looking at who you [00:36:00] are, what you want.
And then you're asking yourself really important questions about the current commitments that you have, and do they align? And the current priorities that you have, and do they align? Now, the reason this is so important for multi-passionate is because our priorities tend to shift.
[00:36:18] It's like a tectonic plate under the earth moving ever so slightly. So all of a sudden, even though your priority, what is, like, for my example, digital products, all of a sudden I'm gearing up to launch a small group program. Wait a second. What happened to the digital products? Right? So if. We start to get excited about a new idea that isn't aligned with that big picture vision.
[00:36:51] When we have that Intensive Focus session, that gives us the time and the space that we need as multi-passionate to course correct [00:37:00] to say, oh, wait a minute. That's right. I'm in a 90-day season of focus where I'm just focusing on digital products. I actually don't need to start planning my group program yet.
[00:37:11] I just, I'm not there yet. It will come. And it's this feeling of like, oh, okay, perfect. I'll just continue building up my digital product funnel because that's what I plan to do. I simply needed to remind myself. And not only that, but why am I doing this? Why am I building out a digital product funnel?
[00:37:33] Well, my core values are rest and creativity. Having digital products that can run without my presence are going to support my deep life values. That's why I'm doing this. Passive income is not passive at first. It's fricking hard work. So remembering why is so important. Why, why, why? And sense of focus does that now, intensively, this is wonderful and great and dreamy and fun and [00:38:00] expansive, but guess what else we need to execute. We're going to have to create to do this. Okay. We're going to have to do that stuff or we're going to, to get support to do it or whatever. Otherwise, there's no momentum and we're just sort of floating in the clouds and just dreaming about our business, but we're not actually executing.
And so that's where Active Focus comes in. [00:38:21] It's a much different energy. It's much, much, much different, more, we're more familiar with it, but it's a different type of focus. It's, okay, I'm going to get this work done. I'm going to work in short spurts. I'm going to maybe put on some music or maybe I need complete silence. Right? We learn things about ourselves because we know that there's different types of focus for different types of hours.
[38:41] And then we have Passive Focus, which is exactly what it sounds like. Which is like, all right, well, I've been doing a lot of work. I mean, I've been doing a lot of big picture thinking. I've been executing. I'm just going to go watch this webinar and I'm going to let that be what I do today. And I'm okay with that.
[00:39:01] Or I'm going to go listen to a podcast or I'm going to go for a walk, and I'm just going to brainstorm and think about something, but I'm not going to actually do any work right now. I'm going to allow myself to take a bit of a break. This is serving our creativity. This is keeping us from burning out.
[00:39:20] And it's a type of focus. It's a type of focus that is simply more passive. So, this three-part focus framework that I've developed has really been transforming the way that multi-passionates relate to focus. And it's helping multi-passionate people see that this whole idea of, oh, you know, multi-passionate, that's just an excuse [00:39:44] ‘cause you don't want to focus. [39:45] That's a blanket statement that we absolutely just don't need to buy into anymore because now we understand. No, I know how to focus and not only do I know how to focus, I know what type of focus I need. As it relates to whatever outcome I'm trying to create. If I'm unclear on my priorities, I know that I needed an Intensive Focus session.
[00:40:05] If I'm not moving the needle and nothing's getting done, I'm lacking Active Focus. If I'm burnt out, because all I'm doing is working, there is some opportunities to integrate Passive Focus into my schedule. And teaching this has been so rewarding. I'm actually just getting started on really putting this out there.
[00:40:25] So I have an ebook that's going to be coming out. And then I have a workshop, the replay of a live workshop, that I'll be providing as well for people who want to go deeper and learn about more like project planning and creating a 90-day season of focus and getting more deep into that. But this is something that, like, I said is a paradigm shift because when we understand that there's more than one type of focus and that we get to actually be in control of that relationship, we feel so much more empowered as multi-passionate creatives. And it helps with a [00:41:00] lot of other things that aren't directly related to focus like burnout, like shiny object syndrome, and even imposter syndrome. It supports with that because you understand that it's not that you're never going to get this done. It's that you're doing it in a way that works for you.
Karen: [00:41:18] Yeah, and that workshop was so like, enlightening, empowering and kind of a relief for me. It's the Falling in Love with Focus workshop, right? Is that what it's called?
Joi: [00:41:30] Yes.
Karen: [00:41:31] And because I think, yeah, I only knew of one kind of focus, which is what you call Active Focus. And it was like either you have it or you're not. And you know, you don't know when you're going to have it or when you're not, is how I felt. And I always felt like I should always be doing more of it than I was. And so it was helpful to see that the Intensive Focus, that big picture thinking, was just as important. And as I've started [00:42:00] to put that into practice, it's been so helpful and it's energizing in a different way, [00:42:05]you know, so it's like not all work is, I dunno, sitting down at my computer and typing or having active or whatever, right? There are other ways to use that. And also, to see it as a tool, focus as a tool and you can pick it up sometimes or use it in a different way also.
Joi: [00:42:23] And then you can intentionally put it down too. Right? Because we can't talk about the multi-passionate experience and not talk about burnout.
Karen: Yeah.
Joi: We're burnt out from trying to be people that we’re not and fitting into everyone else's mould. We're burnt out from our own ideas.
Karen: [00:42:41] yeah.
Joi: [00:42:42] You know, we're burnt out from feeling like we're always behind. We need to catch up because the specialists are just going full steam ahead.
Karen: [00:42:51] Yeah.
Karen: [00:42:52] And maybe I should have asked you this at the beginning, but like for people who are hearing the word multi-passionate for the first time, how do you define that? Or, I know when I heard it for the first time, I was like, oh my gosh, it was so helpful. So, can you give a definition?
Joi: [00:43:08] Yes, of course. Yes. Thank you for, thanks for bringing me back down to earth because sometimes I just think, oh, everyone knows what this is, so, okay. So, anyone who's listening, who's like, this sounds intriguing, but I understand only half of what Joi is saying. Let's take a few steps back.
[00:43:25] So here's what my personal definition of multi-passionate creative. Right? That's how I like to phrase it.
Here's my definition [00:43:34] of who those people are, who we are. If you are a person who has many interests in many different subjects, and you also have the raw talent to match, you are very likely a multi-passionate.
[00:43:53] But if you are someone who has many interests in many subjects and you have raw talent, meaning [00:44:00] you don't just have an interest in like weaving, you can actually learn it really fast and you're good at it. Okay. So like, that's what I mean by that. Now you have that going for you, but you also have this deep desire to share your creations with the world.
[00:44:17] So the hobbyist is someone who can really separate their passions and their interests from their business. The multi-passionate creative has a very hard time seeing where that line is. And doesn't really necessarily believe that there has to be this clear divide. They feel in their spirit that there should be room for them to show up and express more than one of their passions and more than one of their interests.
[00:44:49] And that's why for multi-passionate creatives, when we hear people say, you need to just have one thing, choose one thing, you need a flagship offer. You know, you don't want to confuse your audience and don't use the name multi-passionate as an excuse. If you want to make money, focus on one thing. I've heard that so many times I've heard success be quantified as choose one thing. Basically, sit up, sit down, be quiet, pick one thing and shut up about it. So that's going to feel real charged for the multi-passionate.
Karen: [00:45:23] Yeah.
Joi: [00:45:24] It's going to feel triggering. It's going to create shame. It's going to feel like you're just not allowed to play this game of online business or business building in general.
[00:45:37] It's going to feel like you have to make all these really finite choices and you can never change your mind. It's going to make everything feel real serious and real heavy we're not here to build businesses that way. We're here to say I'm a multi-passionate creative. And that does not mean that all of my [00:46:00] ideas are going to become a part of my business model. And it does not mean that I need to start three or four businesses at one time in order to validate or prove something being multi-passionate is a noun and not a verb. It's not about what I do. It's about who I am.
[00:46:17] So I can host a workshop and decide that I'm going to play my ukulele and sing a song as people arrive. And that can be an empowered choice that I make as a multi-passionate. I don't have to monetize giving ukulele lessons unless I want to, but these choices come from an empowered place of me being grounded in my multi-passionate mastery versus me feeling like I better hide my gifts. I better hide my talents. [00:46:51] I better never talk about the fact that I play the ukulele because people are just going to be real confused and I'm not allowed to share that part of myself.
So [00:47:00] the multi-passionate creative is really on this powerful journey to self-acceptance whether they know it or not. Because a lot of times they've been told you're doing too much. [00:47:10] You changed your mind too much. You're flaky. You're wishy-washy you don't know how to focus. And honestly, if you want to be successful, you need to sit down and shut up and pick one thing. And I'm just here to say, I mean, or we could just accept ourselves.
Karen: [00:47:23] Yeah. [both laugh]
Joi: [00:47:26] And you know, it's, I think I know that I'm a disruptor and my advice can be really polarizing and that's totally fine because the people who are like, oh my goodness, I've been waiting for someone to say that, those are the people who come into my world and who come into my community.
People who are like, this is cute, but like I'm telling you successes, you know, riches are in the niches [00:48:00] and all that. [00:48:00] They gravitate away and that's okay too because this is not a right or wrong, or an either-or conversation in any way. I like to think of it like this for, we are totally fine with people being introverts or people being extroverts, right? Like there's content all over like, oh, introverts, you can still be a coach and here's how you do it and this and that.
[00:48:24] But we don't make people wrong. We're not like introverts, that's wrong, but look like you better become extroverted or you can't be, we're not, we don't do that. We don't. I mean, hopefully, I don't really see anyone out there doing that. And so that's kind of how I feel. We get to begin to talk about the multi-passionate experience. [00:48:42] I think we began to look at it as some people are introverts and some people are extroverts. Some people are specialists, and some people are multi-passionate.
Karen: [00:48:51] Yeah. And I want to say as a quick aside, because you're talking about multi-passionate as entrepreneurs, but like also some multi-passionates change careers go in vastly different ways. Change, dive in, learn something new, a mark of a multi-passionate too, is that we get bored, like dive in, learn something so fast, learn all the things and then we can get bored and move on.
[00:49:14] And so like, if that's happening to you also, that's okay. That's okay. Maybe that's who you are. That's not a mark of being wrong. And it's great that you can learn all of these things and go into a new career. Like you can do it in a traditional sense.
Joi: [00:49:28] I mean, when I was working in corporate, I would kind of just would create my own job roles at, at a certain point because I would get pulled in all these directions because I had all these different talents. And so, I'd be like, okay, can we negotiate around this? Because not only can I create your content calendar, I can also write the copy, design the graphics. Like I can also do all of this, so is there an opportunity for me to step into a different role?
So, I would say, you know, for anyone who's in corporate or you know, who is in [00:50:00] a traditional job setting, if you feel like you have a lot to offer and you're getting pulled in those different directions by, you know, leadership or whatever, don't be afraid to say that you see an opportunity to create a unique role for yourself. Own that. It makes you more valuable, not less valuable.
Karen: [00:50:20] Yeah. And hopefully, those who are hiring too can say, oh, you're not just one thing. And that's awesome. Like that's a huge, that can be a huge benefit for an organization as well. So I wanted to ask like, who is your career crush? Do you have a current one? Or past, you know, folks that are just inspiring you to go through career crushes or entrepreneur crushes?
Joi: [00:50:45] That's such a great question. I'm going to be completely honest here. My future self is my career [00:51:00] crush.
Karen: [00:51:00] Oh, say more about that.
Joi: [00:51:04] Well, I just know her so intimately. She's so relaxed and she's so confident and she's created systems in her business that don't require her to show up all the time and she gets to rest. She gets to create, and she gets to show up when it's aligned for her. And I'm just so in awe of the choices that she's made to get there.
[00:51:36] I'm in awe of her and I can feel her and everything I'm doing right now is to close this time-space continuum and connect and meet up with her. It's difficult for me to have a career crush for someone outside of myself because I don't have a lot of examples of people being a hundred percent unapologetic in the way that they do business. [00:52:07] Sometimes I think I've found someone like that. And then I realized like, oh no, nope.
Karen: [00:52:16] No, it's still me.
Joi: [00:52:16] It’s really the case. Yeah. So, Yeah. Like I'm really genuinely trying to think, ‘cause I've had career crushes on people before, but then I found out things about their ethics or things like that have really pulled the curtain back and it made me have a hard stop.
There is one person who, Yeah. [00:52:40] And like, I know people have thoughts about cancel culture, but like as a black woman, I have no problem. [00:52:47] Like you can be cancelled when you come back, and you learn something new. We can put you back on the air. That's how I feel about it.
Karen: [00:52:54] Yeah.
Joi: [00:52:55] So there is one person. So, Sarah Morgan is a [00:53:00] digital product content creator. And she has a membership, and she runs a small group program and she has a podcast and blog posts, and she creates a lot of great digital products and helps other people do the same.
[00:53:18] I don't know her that intimately, but I do enjoy her content and I do like her business model. And it does seem like, you know, she sort of has things worked out where she doesn't have to show up all the time and she kind of has things that run for her. So, she would be someone who I definitely think is someone that I could potentially like look up to and, and model after.
[00:53:47] But I think another reason why I struggled with this question is because I try really hard to not consume too much of other people's content, just because I know I have so much to create within myself that needs to come out. So I just, I walk a really, really fine line. I love the concept though. I love the concept of having a career crush.
[00:54:07] I love the idea of like, you know, meeting someone and being like, oh my gosh, I just love how you did this, but for multi-passionates there are not a ton of it. The samples I can think of. Donald Glover! Also known as Childish Gambino.
Karen: [00:54:23] Yeah.
Joi: [00:54:25] Okay.
Karen: [00:54:26] Okay. Here you go. I can hear the energy.
Joi: [00:54:27] Okay. It took a while to get there.
Karen: [00:54:30] Yeah.
Joi: [00:54:31] Okay. This man is a playwright. He is a stand-up comedian. He is an actor. He is a musician. He's hot as fuck. He's gorgeous. And he does it all so well. And he does it with an air of Renaissance confidence. And there's probably other things he does that I have no idea about. Like, I bet he can draw or [00:55:00] paint or something. [00:55:01] Showing up and being that multi-passionate.
Rihanna falls into this category too. And I appreciate that. She's just like, I don't want to sing anymore. I'm fully doing fashion. Everyone can just deal with it. I appreciate that in her as well as a multi-passionate. So, I think celebrities are the people who get away with being multi-passionate and that's why it's hard for me to think of a career crush.
[00:55:24] I know in the online business space, but it's easy for me to pull from a celebrity because they get the green path, just do whatever they want, because that's how our culture is. We just, you know, celebrities have no rules. Right? So, they get to do whatever. So, I think that's really illuminating though. Just how hard it was for me to get through that question.
Karen: [00:55:44] Well, I think the other thing is too, that may be a career crush is not what you need right now. Like, I think there are times where there's the energy of a crush that it's so exciting like when I've kind of stumbled across someone who I just think is so cool. I think it just, and to see how they're doing something so unique or doing up a bunch of things, 00:56:06] so uniquely, has given me permission to think about what is the unique thing that I bring to the world. Not like, oh, I'm going to be exactly like that person and do all the things they're doing, but just to go, oh, that's possible. So, I'm not going to say that everybody needs to have a career crush all the time, but maybe if you were like lacking motivation or inspiration, keeping your eyes open might help to energize you, you know?
Joi: [00:56:35] It's literally my future self though. Like literally if I think about my ultimate career, I think about, I just think about me in the future and I think I'm obsessed with her. And everything I do every day in my life is just to get closer to her because she did it. She did it and I can [00:57:00] feel her rooting for me. I can feel her saying, you can do this your way. It's going to be great. Like, I can feel her. And yeah, it's all for her. It's also that I can close the time-space continuum and be her.
Karen: [00:57:19] Oh, so powerful. It's funny. ‘Cause sometimes I ask people like, what would you say to that past version of yourself that was struggling. But you have now that future version of yourself saying, you know, you've got this.,
Joi: [00:57:34] Yeah. She's like, it'll all be worth it. Pumps. Sit with me and drink this pina colada.
Karen: 00:57:43] Oh, I love it. Oh, well, thank you so much for spending this time with me. People can find you on your website, right?
Joi: [00:57:58] Yes. People can find me at Joi-knows-how.com. It's Joi with an I and a dash between each word. You can also connect with me on Instagram @joi.knows.how. Joi with an eye and a period in between each word. And yeah, I have a membership community that doors are going to be opening up this summer. So that's something, depending on the timing of your hearing this, might be an option.
[00:58:27] If you are looking for ongoing mentorship and the way that I provide it, which is in a small group setting, and if you're looking to connect with the community were talking about the multi-passionate experience is the norm, I'm so proud to say, I have built that community for you. And I also will have my ebook coming out and you can keep up with all of those things by either following me on Instagram or going to my website.
Karen: [00:58:53] Yeah, and I love your newsletters too. We all get newsletters from everybody and it's like, it's so rare to enjoy them, but yours are really enjoyable.
Joi: [00:59:06] Thank you so much.
Karen: [00:59:08] One of those ways to keep up with people. Like, it sounds silly to say, but you know, it's so rare that you get those that are like such a lovely little magical, you have to get in your inbox.
Joi: [00:59:20] thank you so much. I'm really grateful to say that that's the general response and, you know, I'll give my newsletter secret away of how I do that.
Karen: [00:59:29] Oh yes.
Joi: [00:59:30] You ready for this? Okay. So, I send out emails usually either on Friday or Saturday morning. If I have nothing to say, I skip a week. I don't force myself to have something to say. And the way I write my newsletters is that Monday through Thursday, I live my life. I see what lessons are coming up from me. What message has been sort of repeating itself through whatever, just the living of life. And then I get the download. And then on Thursday or Friday, I write my email.
[01:00:07] I do not batch them in advance. I do not schedule them out. They're all organic. And I write them each week based on my life experience and every single week people reply and tell me it's exactly what they needed to hear. So that's how I write emails.
Karen: [01:00:24] Hmm. I think, you know, it must be that we can pick up on that energy that it's fresh and that you didn't write it three months ago or whatever.
Joi: [01:00:33] Yeah. Yep. I mean, sometimes I'm like, ooh, I should repeat this one and turn it into a blog post, or I'll make it an article inside of my communities. People can go back to it, but it feels so good to connect with my audience in a way that's like, here's what I went through this week, I bet I’m not the only one. So, you know, here's that message. And sometimes it is just like, hey, I'm teaching this class y'all should come. You know?
Karen: [01:01:00] Yeah.
Joi: [01:01:01] There's a balance of both.
Karen: [01:01:03] That's also what I'm thinking about this week.
Joi: [01:01:05] Yeah?
Karen: [01:01:06] Yep.
Joi: [01:01:07] Exactly.
Karen: [01:01:10] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. We'll link up your website and your socials in the show notes and I'll see you around in your collective.
Joi: [01:01:19] Okay. Thank you so much for having me, Karen, thank you.
Karen: Glad you could be here.
Resources
D’Ana Joi’s Article - “It’s time to start celebrating multi-passionate creatives”
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